punter992005

more spreading of lies and deceit in Today's papers

29 posts in this topic

Read the Metro, Sun and Mirror today and all three had a small story that had obviously been fed to them in a press release re: a new survey revealing over 1 in 10 men had paid for sex and that the industry was worth xx billions.....based on the hugely scientific and accurate formula that there's 80,000 sex workers (yes that figure again) and that they see 15 clients a week and charge 60 quid per client. Love it. Take one random figure (80,000) which has even been rubbished by the person who came up with it, and multiply it by another bunch of random guesswork. They said it was part of research to help MPs decide how best to "tackle the demand for prostitution" - as if it's prefectly reasonable to tackle demand for something that's legal.

Then comes the best bit, at the bottom of all 3 stories in all 3 papers they said that a new law will come into force in a few months which will make it an offence to visit a prostitute who is "pimped or trafficked". Same phrase in all 3 papers. Clearly their philosophy for "tackling the demand" is to try to make people think that booking a girl through an agency or visiting a brothel will be illegal, and to factually lie about what the law will do.

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based on the hugely scientific and accurate formula that there's 80,000 sex workers (yes that figure again) and that they see 15 clients a week and charge 60 quid per client. Love it. Take one random figure (80,000) which has even been rubbished by the person who came up with it, and multiply it by another bunch of random guesswork.

You forgot about "charge £xx,xxx in consultancy fees" part.

Clearly their philosophy for "tackling the demand" is to try to make people think that booking a girl through an agency or visiting a brothel will be illegal, and to factually lie about what the law will do.

I wouldn't hold my breath, even if they achieve anything, which is doubtful, lower demand will mean lower prices, and perhaps a slight drop in quality.

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Read the Metro, Sun and Mirror today and all three had a small story that had obviously been fed to them in a press release re: a new survey revealing over 1 in 10 men had paid for sex and that the industry was worth xx billions.....based on the hugely scientific and accurate formula that there's 80,000 sex workers (yes that figure again) and that they see 15 clients a week and charge 60 quid per client. Love it. Take one random figure (80,000) which has even been rubbished by the person who came up with it, and multiply it by another bunch of random guesswork. They said it was part of research to help MPs decide how best to "tackle the demand for prostitution" - as if it's prefectly reasonable to tackle demand for something that's legal.

Then comes the best bit, at the bottom of all 3 stories in all 3 papers they said that a new law will come into force in a few months which will make it an offence to visit a prostitute who is "pimped or trafficked". Same phrase in all 3 papers. Clearly their philosophy for "tackling the demand" is to try to make people think that booking a girl through an agency or visiting a brothel will be illegal, and to factually lie about what the law will do.

I covered this point in my post on HH.

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thankfully the public can see through all the propaganda as opinion polls show that most people want prostitution legalised/decriminalised

people still remember the wmd lies so tend to be wary of govt "information"

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Read the Metro, Sun and Mirror today and all three had a small story that had obviously been fed to them in a press release re: a new survey revealing over 1 in 10 men had paid for sex and that the industry was worth xx billions.....based on the hugely scientific and accurate formula that there's 80,000 sex workers (yes that figure again) and that they see 15 clients a week and charge 60 quid per client. Love it. Take one random figure (80,000) which has even been rubbished by the person who came up with it, and multiply it by another bunch of random guesswork. They said it was part of research to help MPs decide how best to "tackle the demand for prostitution" - as if it's prefectly reasonable to tackle demand for something that's legal.

Then comes the best bit, at the bottom of all 3 stories in all 3 papers they said that a new law will come into force in a few months which will make it an offence to visit a prostitute who is "pimped or trafficked". Same phrase in all 3 papers. Clearly their philosophy for "tackling the demand" is to try to make people think that booking a girl through an agency or visiting a brothel will be illegal, and to factually lie about what the law will do.

Why is the glass always half full? My interpretation of the article and indeed the Home Office research is quite different... The article quoted the Home Office research as follows:

'Given finite resources, policy makers need to decide whether they wish to tackle all demand (including buying sex abroad), all domestic demand, or the demand for street prostitution,' the report concludes.

Link: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/810695-one-in-10-uk-men-has-used-a-prostitute

Return of the repressed, anyone?

B

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They said it was part of research to help MPs decide how best to "tackle the demand for prostitution" - as if it's prefectly reasonable to tackle demand for something that's legal.

Where is the problem with 2 consenting adults having sex that the demand for prostitution needs tackling. It seems to me that with trafficking being shown to be such a small percentage of prostitution in the UK there is scarcely much of a demand for prostitution problem to tackle.

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<<trafficking being shown to be such a small percentage of prostitution>> While that is a very good point, I'm not sure it is being heard as well as it should by the great British public.

I believe the ECP and IUSW need to put down some serious money to fund a professionally-run public relations campaign. There will be no better time than now, with the Iraq war enquiry running and the government being exposed as the cynical liars they are on this and other issues.

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Eh?

"tackle the demand for prostitution" is a 1,5 year old report

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/tackling-demand.html

The Huddersfield report was published mid december

http://punternet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25227

why write about this now?

who is behind the press release, looks like it's not the UK home office

http://press.homeoffice.gov.uk/index.html

has any paper quoted a source?

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As I have written on numerous occasions on this forum, the purpose of Section/Clause 14 of the Policing And Crime Act 2009 is/was (i) to place on the Statute Book legislation to totally eradicate organised prostitution in the UK (ii) to criminalise a person who buys sex from a prostitute. The latter is the prime reason for this "smoke screen" legislation because everything covered by 14 with exception of the Strict Liabilty 'offence' is covered by numerous laws already on the Statute Book. Just as everything this Government do or say 14 is based on deceit, this Government tailor evidence to achieve all their ends, if this strategy were emulated in Court they would now be serving a custodial sentence for perjury.

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<<trafficking being shown to be such a small percentage of prostitution>> While that is a very good point, I'm not sure it is being heard as well as it should by the great British public.

I believe the ECP and IUSW need to put down some serious money to fund a professionally-run public relations campaign. There will be no better time than now, with the Iraq war enquiry running and the government being exposed as the cynical liars they are on this and other issues.

Yeah I agree, but they have very little money. Until escorts, agencies and punters put their hand in their pockets and fund them, then nothing is going to happen.

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I almost hope it doesn't get legalised. What would the regulatory body be called? Ofwank?

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Eh?

"tackle the demand for prostitution" is a 1,5 year old report

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/tackling-demand.html

The Huddersfield report was published mid december

http://punternet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25227

why write about this now?

who is behind the press release, looks like it's not the UK home office

http://press.homeoffice.gov.uk/index.html

has any paper quoted a source?

don't know but they were all virtually identical and they all ended by saying that the new law would make it an offence to pay a woman who was "trafficked or pimped". Obviously they've lifted that directly off the press release but who it came from they don't say. Might be worth writing to a couple of friendly MPs and asking them to raise the matter, since it's not the first time the law has been misrepresented; I seem to remember the original press release after royal assent was given said that "control for gain" was still the pertinent phrase....

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I believe the ECP and IUSW need to put down some serious money to fund a professionally-run public relations campaign.

Only one question, were do you expect this "serious money" to come from? Do you donate? The ECP and IUSW run entirely on funding from the likes of you and me and the hard work of volunteers.

They fight our fight for us and with us but it is we who need to be offering them more support, financial and alike, they cant simply magic money out of the air in order to fight our battles.

Anyone who wishes to donate can do so here http://tiny.cc/toJx4

Perhaps more constructive than sitting back and letting them do all the hard work we could all try and put together some constructive idea's on how to get our argument accross and discuss ways of raising awareness of these orgonisations and helping with fundraising?

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The latest Commencement Order for the Policing And Crime Act 2009:-

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2010/uksi_20100125_en_1

No it does not introduce Section 14, IMO section 14 will be a stand alone commencement and brought in with massive publicity, surrounded by lies and deceit which this thread is about, falsely describing an obscure law as something it is not; namely mainstream legislation banning prostitution in the UK, create an atmosphere of fear and dread among buyers of sexual services and close all brothels in the UK.

I may be wrong but is this the only mainstream law in the UK that has adopted Latin Law, I know there are motoring offences, but I cannot bring to mind any others. Draconia is here today and will only get worse in what can only be described as a Police State.

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The latest Commencement Order for the Policing And Crime Act 2009:-

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2010/uksi_20100125_en_1

No IMO section 14 will be a stand alone commencement and brought in with massive publicity, surrounded by lies and deceit

... or maybe the new Home Secretary, having realised what an embarrassment the new law is, has just decided to sit on it

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... or maybe the new Home Secretary, having realised what an embarrassment the new law is, has just decided to sit on it

I hope against hope that you are correct. Recently though there have been reports in many Newspapers that Section 14 will be introduced in a couple months time, Nanny Labour are there until May, probably June if Brown goes right to the wire. The very fact that Newspapers are being briefed about this leads me to suspect the Executive are laying the ground for a big campaign when or if this awful draconian legislation is ever commenced. If it is introduced it will open the flood gates to completely supress prostitution in the UK, not by the law itself but by fear and ignorance, and it won't stop there, the Tories are even more moralistic than the Socialists, IMO there will a big crackdown on Internet Porn, just as there has with Child Abuse on the Web, with this so called uniquely UK indecent image culture covering all age groups were the Web is concerned. I have always said, if you have a broadband connection you may as well leave your front door open; it gives the Authorities unburdened access to everything about you. I expect this text will end up on some file, in some Spy Centre, probably building a profile of everyone who uses this forum, including me.

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The latest Commencement Order for the Policing And Crime Act 2009:-

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2010/uksi_20100125_en_1

No it does not introduce Section 14, IMO section 14 will be a stand alone commencement and brought in with massive publicity, surrounded by lies and deceit which this thread is about, falsely describing an obscure law as something it is not; namely mainstream legislation banning prostitution in the UK, create an atmosphere of fear and dread among buyers of sexual services and close all brothels in the UK.

I may be wrong but is this the only mainstream law in the UK that has adopted Latin Law, I know there are motoring offences, but I cannot bring to mind any others. Draconia is here today and will only get worse in what can only be described as a Police State.

Your posts come across (to me at least) as paranoia and scaremongering.

These new laws are not going to make any difference to the industry. Effectively the Police already have the power to shut down brothels/parlours. All the new legislation does it make it easier for them to do so. There are numerous cities and towns where brothels are tolerated and the new powers are going to make no difference to the status quo.

Prostitution has always been legal in the UK, even in the Puritanical 1600's and the age of Victorian morality. This is not a back door attempt to rid the UK of prostitution.

Section 14 is going to be unworkable and difficult to enforce.Look at how few people were actually prosecuted as a result of Operation Pentameter.

As for massive publicity....I can't see it myself. We're coming up to a General Election. This isn't a vote-winner for anybody. Police leave isn't going to be cancelled when the new legislation is in force so that organised brothel raids can be made right across the country.

What do you mean by massive publicity ? Adverts on the television and in the papers ....like drink driving, Car tax, TV licensing ?

A large proportion of the population are already ignorant of the law on prostitution. A new Act is going to make no difference to them. Look at the number of people that come on this board and who believe that prostitution is illegal.

As I've said before -This new legislation is a damp squib. No real change. Move on folks ... nothing to see here

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Only one question, were do you expect this "serious money" to come from? Do you donate? The ECP and IUSW run entirely on funding from the likes of you and me and the hard work of volunteers.

They fight our fight for us and with us but it is we who need to be offering them more support, financial and alike, they cant simply magic money out of the air in order to fight our battles.

Anyone who wishes to donate can do so here http://tiny.cc/toJx4

Perhaps more constructive than sitting back and letting them do all the hard work we could all try and put together some constructive idea's on how to get our argument accross and discuss ways of raising awareness of these orgonisations and helping with fundraising?

it would help if we all write to our m.p.s expressing concern for the effects of the law on sex workers

it would help if we all write to complain when there is a negative article in a newspaper or on tv

it would help if we all donated

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If it is introduced it will open the flood gates to completely supress prostitution in the UK, not by the law itself but by fear and ignorance, and it won't stop there, the Tories are even more moralistic than the Socialists, IMO there will a big crackdown on Internet Porn, just as there has with Child Abuse on the Web, with this so called uniquely UK indecent image culture covering all age groups were the Web is concerned. I have always said, if you have a broadband connection you may as well leave your front door open; it gives the Authorities unburdened access to everything about you. I expect this text will end up on some file, in some Spy Centre, probably building a profile of everyone who uses this forum, including me.

That is a good point on the Tories, they want to expand faith schools, give religious groups more control on public schools, abolish sex education, encourage religious based organisations to take over policies in society (Labour has done that a little bit) and many others. People I know think that the Tory Government will be a lot like the current government in Australia which is pretty much made up of religious fundies in disguise of moderates and putting religion into every policy they make (they recently tried to introduced a law banning Internet porn unless you sign up for it with your ISP). Sure there are some non-religious members in the Tories, but they are not in the mainstream meaning they will not be on top which will give the religious Tories the green light to make religious based policies which will include stopping all sexual freedoms.

The Internet is the one true enemy of both Religion and Radical Feminists, which is why both of these groups are trying to censor it. Sure there are great things about the Internet but there are also many bad things too. Religions hate it cause they hate websites and forums on mostly non-religious stuff, things that goes against religions (Human Rights and Sexual Freedoms among them) websites that sane religious people are questioning their religion and what religious leaders say, and also there are more Atheists and Non-religious people then they thought of especially in countries where religion has taken over politics and society. Radical Feminists hate the Internet for not just because there are many things that they hate on the net (Human Rights for Men, Sexual Freedoms for Men and Women, etc) but also that there more sex-positive feminists out there then they thought, however there maybe still thousands if not millions of sex positive feminists out there that are afraid to admit it.

The only websites that Authorities should focus on are websites to protect vulnerable people and websites that incite murder and hatred which a majority of people who use the net want shut down.

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... or maybe the new Home Secretary, having realised what an embarrassment the new law is, has just decided to sit on it

I thought that too. I know Denis MacShane and Fiona MacTaggart are both worried that the law will not be enacted...DM said so in the house. Not sure if he meant what you meant i.e he may have meant not used by the police in the event of a raid. But it did seem at the time that he could have been expressing the same thoughts as us. I know they've got to set up the guidelines for the CPS, Police et al. to follow first i.e they need to stipulate under what circumstances an arrest would be appropriate, and what they'd need evidentially to have a reasonable chance of a conviction etc.etc. It could be they're having trouble coming up with guidelines that are workable....but it also could be that they're intending to announce the law just prior to the election to get the headlines.....but not so close that there's time for someone to challenge the law in court and expose it for being useless and unenforceable.

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..it also could be that they're intending to announce the law just prior to the election to get the headlines..

I agree, in which case the best thing for us would be to lay foundations now for a concerted media campaign when it happens.. get texting Radio 5, or anything to raise the profile of our side. If we can get enough 'pre-buttal' going they will realise they can't succeed by doing what they wanted.

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Well I've sent off an email to both Keith Vaz and John McDonnel who are both on our side, asking them to query as to who is sending out this rubbish to all the papers. I'll let you know if I get a response.

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I don't believe in big conspiracy theories, but it may be that some sources in the labour establishment are having these stories released in order to keep up the momentum. But in general since the demise of Smith, and with other things demanding government attention, the commencement of this law may have dropped down the list of priorities.

It will be difficult to implement, don't forget it has NEVER before before been illegal to pay for sex in this country, so nicking and charging normal punters will be an alien experience for the police.

You can imagine the sort of discussions which may take place in trying to formulate guidelines:

Home office minister:"right when you nick a punter we need you to (1) make sure you have evidence that money has changed hands for sex, and (2) establish that the girl has been forced or coerced preferably by her own admission"

Police and CPS: Hoots of derision.

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I don't believe in big conspiracy theories, but it may be that some sources in the labour establishment are having these stories released in order to keep up the momentum. But in general since the demise of Smith, and with other things demanding government attention, the commencement of this law may have dropped down the list of priorities.

It will be difficult to implement, don't forget it has NEVER before before been illegal to pay for sex in this country, so nicking and charging normal punters will be an alien experience for the police.

You can imagine the sort of discussions which may take place in trying to formulate guidelines:

Home office minister:"right when you nick a punter we need you to (1) make sure you have evidence that money has changed hands for sex, and (2) establish that the girl has been forced or coerced preferably by her own admission"

Police and CPS: Hoots of derision.

Well clearly she'll have to claim she's forced, there's no way they could go to court claiming it unilaterally. However the sticking point will actually come when they realise they'll need her to be in court. They're struggling to figure out how to prosecute Antoni Imiela (The M25 rapist) for a rape they've linked him to via DNA. The victim is now dead and can't be cross examined and it's a bit dodgy. It may be possible with her video evidence but only because she's dead and so CAN'T be there. So they've got no chance with a case like this, where it'll be simply because the victim doesn't WANT to be. She'll want to go back home most likely and forget about it. But for a prosecution to work she'll have to be there, and I can't see a sex slave being too interested in giving evidence against the client probably months after she's been rescued, and after she's already given evidence against the trafficker since he's going to be the police's first priority.

Also they're almost certain to hit a problem re: strict liability as well. I've gone over these problems in a million other threads and they're too numerous to go into again.

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That is a good point on the Tories, they want to expand faith schools, give religious groups more control on public schools, abolish sex education, encourage religious based organisations to take over policies in society (Labour has done that a little bit) and many others. People I know think that the Tory Government will be a lot like the current government in Australia which is pretty much made up of religious fundies in disguise of moderates and putting religion into every policy they make (they recently tried to introduced a law banning Internet porn unless you sign up for it with your ISP). Sure there are some non-religious members in the Tories, but they are not in the mainstream meaning they will not be on top which will give the religious Tories the green light to make religious based policies which will include stopping all sexual freedoms.

The Internet is the one true enemy of both Religion and Radical Feminists, which is why both of these groups are trying to censor it. Sure there are great things about the Internet but there are also many bad things too. Religions hate it cause they hate websites and forums on mostly non-religious stuff, things that goes against religions (Human Rights and Sexual Freedoms among them) websites that sane religious people are questioning their religion and what religious leaders say, and also there are more Atheists and Non-religious people then they thought of especially in countries where religion has taken over politics and society. Radical Feminists hate the Internet for not just because there are many things that they hate on the net (Human Rights for Men, Sexual Freedoms for Men and Women, etc) but also that there more sex-positive feminists out there then they thought, however there maybe still thousands if not millions of sex positive feminists out there that are afraid to admit it.

The only websites that Authorities should focus on are websites to protect vulnerable people and websites that incite murder and hatred which a majority of people who use the net want shut down.

Good points made, the Tory Party is seen as the the Church of England at prayer! seems they are now becoming ALL religions at prayer. I personally loathe all religion, with a passion. IMO religion is dangerous, supressive, controlling, far more abusive and coersive than anything that could be laid onto a working girl, religion is the cause of the ills we now have in the world, the last thing this country needs is for an Executive that will aid the movement who want the UK to become an Islamic State!

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