Belle de Jour

Reserach request...

122 posts in this topic

I'll be a guest on This Week with Andrew Neil on the 11th, and am looking forward to sparring with said fellow and his compatriots Portillo and Abbot.

Obviously, as someone who is unaccustomed to speaking for all sex work, I'd like to arm myself with a few facts first.

Anticipating rather a lot of useless twaddlery on the subject of trafficking, as if that has anything to do with the price of tea in China. Does anyone know what the budget of Pentameter 2 was, or have a reasonable guess? I've seen £100,000 come up in a quote from the irritating folks at Poppy but was unclear if that was the total budget or just some extra cash that was flung their way.

If I think of any other questions I'll post them here. If you can think of any other pertinent points worth bringing up, please do post.

Please answer in thread, and thank you very much.

Brooke

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Edit: yes, I know I spelled research wrong. D'oh.

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I'll be a guest on This Week with Andrew Neil on the 11th, and am looking forward to sparring with said fellow and his compatriots Portillo and Abbot.

Obviously, as someone who is unaccustomed to speaking for all sex work, I'd like to arm myself with a few facts first.

Anticipating rather a lot of useless twaddlery on the subject of trafficking, as if that has anything to do with the price of tea in China. Does anyone know what the budget of Pentameter 2 was, or have a reasonable guess? I've seen £100,000 come up in a quote from the irritating folks at Poppy but was unclear if that was the total budget or just some extra cash that was flung their way.

If I think of any other questions I'll post them here. If you can think of any other pertinent points worth bringing up, please do post.

Please answer in thread, and thank you very much.

Brooke

--

Edit: yes, I know I spelled research wrong. D'oh.

I am sure Andrew Neill will be able to fill in the blanks after all he date Pamela Bordes who was a high class hooker in the 80's

Can you ask him if it is a shredded wheat on his head or real hair

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I'll be a guest on This Week with Andrew Neil on the 11th, and am looking forward to sparring with said fellow and his compatriots Portillo and Abbot.

Quite an amiable trio IMO, you'll have them eating out your hand.

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Quite an amiable trio IMO, you'll have them eating out your hand.

Somehow I suspect they will put on a show of moral outrage just for me. Apart from Portillo, who in private I used to call 'the thinking woman's fag to hag.' Until a friend informed me that he is not, in matter of fact, gay. Officially.

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One point might be that if there are so many trafficked girls working in the industry it would be us, the punters, who would be tripping over them left right and centre. The reality of it is that nobody does despite the large number of members posting and submitting reports on this board and similar ones.

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You could always ask them "surely it's better to catch and punish those who are manipulating/force the women into this rather than what is effectively a third party".

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Glad you decided to return to the forum.

I've seen a figure of £5m for Pentameter 1 but that was not an "official " figure.

£100k for Pentameter 2 would IMHO seem absurdly low.

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A good program to go on Brooke, I like the banter between those three.

From what I've read the £100k was an extra thrown their way - Pentameter

And Andrew Neil can't help what grows out of his head ! Tho I think his original teeth looked better :D

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http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+human+trafficking+cuts/2836257

Glad you decided to return to the forum.

I've seen a figure of £5m for Pentameter 1 but that was not an "official " figure.

£100k for Pentameter 2 would IMHO seem absurdly low.

It is! According to the article on the channel4 website Pantameter2 was funded from the police force budget and not any funds were specially given, which I doubt, and it very difficult to find the estimate figure to spent on it (either both, or P1 or P2)

As Brooke said £100.000 figure flying around but only...from this article its a merely a "top up" to one of the charity organisations who dealing with trafficked women.

Last year, the UK-wide anti-trafficking Operation Pentameter 2 was launched to some fanfare. However, this was funded out of police forces' existing budget streams rather than by extra government money.

The government did give Eaves Housing for Women, a London-based charity which provides support for trafficking victims, a £100,000 top-up to its £2.4m annual grant last year in anticipation of Pentameter 2.

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I've seen a figure of £5m for Pentameter 1 but that was not an "official " figure.

Cheers - in lieu of anything else I'll probably go with that one. Wouldn't pass muster in peer review of course, but far more based in reality than any trafficking statistics put around by the government.

Am just waiting to hear back from a local outreach charity re: what their annual budget is, for comparison's sake. Even if the triumvirate turn out to be not so bad, it would be good to have a nice soundbite-y stat to drop in as and when required.

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By the way - Portillo was on a radio 4? programme a few weeks ago and his viewpoint show a very rounded and mature take on the profession. IMHO

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By the way - Portillo was on a radio 4? programme a few weeks ago and his viewpoint show a very rounded and mature take on the profession. IMHO

Yet another reason why he would be the thinking woman's fag to hag. If he was gay. Which he's not. Anymore. Or something.

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The econonmist devoted an article to sex work and trafficking etc, pointed out that sex work is something you didnt do in your home patch if you could do it elsewhere. Obvious to anyone who is nt a guardian reader. I call these girls "ryan air hookers" they fly in, hoover up about 5k in a month and go home. Thats their plan anyway.

One travel writer wrote, " I was so cold, i would accept having hair like andrew neil, in exhange for a cup of hot choclate."

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Somehow I suspect they will put on a show of moral outrage just for me.

I doubt it, they are all mature and sensible enough not to do that, unless there is a hidden agenda on the producers part. Isn't there some kind of schedule, format, topics list etc given to you before hand? In any case it will be a breeze, enjoy. :D

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Yet another reason why he would be the thinking woman's fag to hag. If he was gay. Which he's not. Anymore. Or something.

Lol - many years age my wife was waitressing and he was a guest - she said he certainly did not act gay! In fact very hetero!!

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One point might be that if there are so many trafficked girls working in the industry it would be us, the punters, who would be tripping over them left right and centre. The reality of it is that nobody does despite the large number of members posting and submitting reports on this board and similar ones.

Yes its really worth repeating ad nauseam that the overwhelming majority of "sex work" activity takes places between consenting adults. Very few people would want to use the services of someone who had been forced into it - sex is supposed to be fun !

It always stuck me that, if the extreme figures bandied about for trafficked/coerced women were true, then there would be (conservatively) hundreds of thousands of punters in this country callously abusing these ladies (or at least indifferent to their plight).

Some people must have a very warped view of men !

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Cheers for the useful input all. Will prob go with '£30 million from 2003-2008' as in mgbroadster's link and leave Pentameter out of it.

The urge to mention Pamella Bordes - or indeed ask Andrew Neil to sign a copy of Private Eye - will be almost too much to bear. I am always discreet on the matter of a man's hair colour though.

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Cheers for the useful input all. Will prob go with '£30 million from 2003-2008' as in mgbroadster's link and leave Pentameter out of it.

The urge to mention Pamella Bordes - or indeed ask Andrew Neil to sign a copy of Private Eye - will be almost too much to bear. I am always discreet on the matter of a man's hair colour though.

If you do, ask him to sign as Brillo.

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You could contact www.Mash.org.uk for info on what type of budget they have, and what results their findings are, never know you could spring something upon them!...best of luck.

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Yet another reason why he would be the thinking woman's fag to hag. If he was gay. Which he's not. Anymore. Or something.
You just have to look at how he's all over Diane Abbott, somtimes I watch the programme and just wish the pair of them would go get a bed.

I Digress, the attached Grauniad article could be useful (ironic given its source) http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/20/trafficking-numbers-women-exaggerated

According to Hansard, and we all know they don't lie in the house of Commons!, the cost of Pentameter was part of the PSNI budget and apparently not separately costed out.

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I Digress, the attached Grauniad article could be useful (ironic given its source) http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/20/trafficking-numbers-women-exaggerated

Coincidentally, a clarification of an article by Rahila Gupta which criticised Davies' piece was published by the Guardian today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2010/feb/01/corrections-and-clarifications

Worth reading if only because it demonstrates (by implication) how the Davies' words were twisted to reach a particular conclusion.

B

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When one reads press reports of actual convictions in cases involving what most people here would agree merits the term "sex slavery", it does appear that they come from an under-world, populated, as to both brothel keepers and clients, for the most part by Albanians, Kurds and other Euro-Asiatics, with the odd Chinese snakehead thrown in for good measure.

(To state the self evident) I can only speak for myself, but I very much doubt that any poster on this board has ever in the UK encountered a woman in a state of slavery. The definition of Trafficking has been cast so wide, that sending a taxi (without escort) to the station to meet a girl coming from London to Colchester (I think?) more or less willingly to a massage parlour (brothel) where a slice of her earnings would be kept by the Madam, has been held to be "Trafficking", hence she was a "Trafficked woman".

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Dear Belle

The data is probably gettable as Freedom of Information Request. The problem is finding the right Authority to request from, waiting for them to reply (can be up to 20 working days), and you have to bear in mind that if they can find any way of avoiding giving it to you they will. So you may not get anything before your date with the chatterati.

Dr. Tim Brain was Gold Commander on Pentameter 2 and an Operational Summary was produced by Gloucester Constabulary so that's a possible start point.

Between the 2 ops, some 1200 brothels were raided and what with the number of man days each raid would have needed, not only pre-planning, but the day of the raid, and processing the paperwork afterwards, the cost must have been astronomical. Certainly a 7-figure sum but quite possibly an 8-figure one.

Presuming that they targeted those establishments most likely to harbour trafficked girls, on a value-for-money basis, their pickings were remarkably slim, in terms of successful prosecutions for sexual slavery. Moreover, a lot of the 'trafficked' girls, instead of gladly rushing to the warm embrace of Poppy, immediately disappeared off the radar, suggesting they were never genuine VoT's. The trafficking definition is broad enough to include where a mammasan pays a girl's cab fare.

What the ops demonstrated was that the vast bulk of brothels operate consensually, as we knew it would all along.

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Portillo has matured and has a moderate, liberal outlook. Abbott is women's rights and is an independent thinker. Neither are the lobby fodder type. Both appear not to be anti-prostitution, in principle, and are obviously strongly anti-trafficking. They and Neil always treat their guests very well.

Likely question, as this is a political current affairs programme, is "what is your opinion as to the likely impact of the imminent Strict Liability legislation on sex trafficking and commercial sex.

Answer: This unique form of Strict Liability will criminalise some clients who have no way of ever knowing or being able to find out whether or not they are breaking the law. Fortunately, the Police already have trafficking well under control (Pentameter 1 and 2) and, in any event, according to a recent authoritative article in the Guardian, the extent of sex trafficking in the UK has been enormously exaggerated. So the effect of Strict Liability will be to drive prostitution underground and make the situation far worse for these vulnerable women. The legislators are attacking prostitution and not eliminating trafficking.

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