Mr Natural

Is it possible to have a balanced view of paid bareback sex?

69 posts in this topic

This is something I've been thinking about for a while. I haven't done bareback, really, as I don't like the current landscape but to be honest it has been hard not to and I have watched the scene on ** develop from nothing to massive. In the mainstream escorting world it is demonised and punters and wgs that do it condemned as massively irresponsible and I wonder if that is the correct stance to take and if it's doing more harm than good.

The reason for the demand is that 1) sex is a massive need for humans 2) a significant percentage of people (women as well as men) find sex with a condom massively unsatisfactory. 3) escorting is the only place people can do it because they're not in a relationship and either can't meet casual partners or are scared of getting a random girl pregnant.

It's often framed that it's a trivial thing to wear a condom, and that it's simply reckless hedonism to want to not. I'm not doubting the experience of people that are ok with it, but if you're one of the ones that's not it's massively frustrating and doesn't fulfill the basic need for sex.

It's all very well to tell people to suck it up and just do it, but the problem with that is that it's like playing 'whack a mole' if you suppress a strong natural urge it can pop up in other places...for example I'm scared that if it's the wrong time and I lose control I'll get a girl pregnant by mistake from casual sex or have sex with a street girl if offered.

The risks of transmitting HIV from vaginal sex are real, but they're not that high. Other nasties like Herpes and Warts are only reduced by 50% with a condom so still a real possibility.

The scene is seen as being polarised to some extent between people who would never do it, and fucked up women who'll do anything with anyone.

But there are girls out there that are accepting the risks/rewards and making the decision to do it and be somewhat selective about who they do it with. Some of these are escorting for a short time to make money, some are swingers who enjoy it, some insist on a std certificate etc. I'd suggest that this kind of thinking could be 'brought into the fold'

The risks are probably lower than other activities that people choose to participate in for love or money. For example there are more deaths from extreme sports or girls getting killed after a night out clubbing. But we don't tell people not to do these things because they're life affirming, and don't condemn say a hang gliding instructor for making money off it.

I'm not denying there's some risk especially the way things are now, but would suggest if we're honest that there are other reasons for why bareback is so badly condemned:

WG's - don't like viscerally like the idea with a punter, condoms are another layer of psychological barrier, the competition is doing something they're not prepared to do.

Punters - ties in to the ideal of female purity in the male psyche, want to be seen agreeing with women and wgs

Safe sex agencies - Blanket policy to encourage condom use in every situation apart from monogamy which is not realistic.

My suggestion would be to not universally condemn bareback escorting. The reasons for this are that it could enable people to make realistic decisions about the risk and get support from a structure in place rather than be in the shadows, and could ultimately lead to safer practises.

For example, it could be possible to create a system whereby people could check on someone's std test results without compromising anonymity and preventing giving a certificate to someone else.

And if it wasn't in the shadow's people could discuss and find out who the drug addict girls, people doing anything with anyone, and bad punters where.

Would welcome your thoughts. Would be nice not to see 'I fuck streetgirls up the arse and never catch anything' or 'hope all bareback girls diseased pussies fall out" etc etc

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I am sure that most - though by no means all - of the ladies who offer bareback are selective and careful about their health; and clearly there is a market out there for it, with many punters also being quite careful. I simply take the view that there a lot of escorts out there and I don't consider it worth the risk of booking one who openly takes this risk, however small, with her risk and with mine.

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To be honest I don't think you will ever see a balanced arguement on this or any other punting board, as it opens up a whole can of worms, would need careful constant moderation and to be honest for it to be out in a public forum it would harm the industry's reputation. I can just imagine now all the politicians and journalists having a field day on it.

If you want bareback then that site is the place to go. No other sites allow discussions on it and quite frankly we all have different opinions. My fear would be an adult discussion on here may entice others to practice unsafe sexual activities. If people want to discuss it then there are places they can go to for discussion.

In my opinion all adults should practice safe sex unless in relationships and planning children. The growth of STD's & unwanted pregnancies is high enough without people condoning it. All adults should take responsibility for their own health. Just imagine you know your past but your don't know the person you are sleeping withs past, or the people they have slept with.

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The risks are probably lower than other activities that people choose to participate in for love or money. For example there are more deaths from extreme sports or girls getting killed after a night out clubbing. But we don't tell people not to do these things because they're life affirming, and don't condemn say a hang gliding instructor for making money off it.

OK, I see the potential for this thread to lead nowhere fast but one thing I would like to comment on. This "argument" here is complete and utter & rubbish.

Sexual diseases can spread like wild fires. And HIV *especially* as it's silent.

If a girl dies outside a night club or someone falls off a mountain, it's highly unlikely that that will affect other girls outside night clubs or mountaineers falling off mountain (sky divers whatever).

Please think carefully about that ignorant comment.

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OK, I see the potential for this thread to lead nowhere fast but one thing I would like to comment on. This "argument" here is complete and utter & rubbish.

Sexual diseases can spread like wild fires. And HIV *especially* as it's silent.

If a girl dies outside a night club or someone falls off a mountain, it's highly unlikely that that will affect other girls outside night clubs or mountaineers falling off mountain (sky divers whatever).

Please think carefully about that ignorant comment.

I see your point, but if you look at the figures a lot of std's are not that virulent for standard vaginal sex, and I'm arguing for being selective not a free for all.

People are already massively barebacking probably more than you think outside and inside the paid sex world. It's a fact of life we have to deal with.

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Is it possible to have a balanced view of paid bareback sex?

Not impossible, just highly improbable.

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People are already massively barebacking probably more than you think outside and inside the paid sex world. It's a fact of life we have to deal with.

Actually this came out sounding a bit wrong. I'm not saying like it or lump it.

I mean that condom use all the time is an impossible standard, and that not recognising that leads to more problems. I'm not sure that accepting bareback and having systems will increase the risk...it's just helping with what's going on. You can still choose not to.

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OK, I see the potential for this thread to lead nowhere fast but one thing I would like to comment on. This "argument" here is complete and utter & rubbish.

Sexual diseases can spread like wild fires. And HIV *especially* as it's silent.

If a girl dies outside a night club or someone falls off a mountain, it's highly unlikely that that will affect other girls outside night clubs or mountaineers falling off mountain (sky divers whatever).

Please think carefully about that ignorant comment.

VERY well put J xx :D

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It sounds neat to say 'don't put others at risk', but the reality is that we do all put other people at risk by our behaviour. So the question is what's different about bareback?

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On the STD argument, I heard that a lot of it is nothing more than scaremongering from

a) The Health/Medicine Pharmaceutical Giants who make a big issue and big profits from such scare tactics. Considering how many people are on the planet, and how many people have unprotected sex on a regular basis with multiple partners the figure is extremely low.

:D The condom manufacturers. Again they play the STD wildcard and make it sound that getting AIDS is like a 1 in 6 Russian Roulette Game- when in fact the Sexual Habit Ratio is more like 1 in 6 Billion.

c) Religious people/establishment. Obviously being backed by New World Order Governments hell bent on Population Control (unless you are part of the Elitist Groups) then yeah you're going to hell- via STDs picked up with every Sinful Bar/Paid for encounter.

Fire on your brimstone you're going to hell Sinner. Repent! Repent!

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Yeh, I think there is an element of truth in that, but wouldn't want to downplay that there is a risk and noone knows exactly what the chances of HIV are.

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If you want to have a balanced argument, it needs to be based on evidence rather than opinion.

To do that, you'd need a study of what would happen if you had a sex industry where bb was the norm.

Unfortunately, such studies are available - from the South African sex industry.

http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102239510.html

And yes, although bb anal sex is common there, the results are still pretty stunning. 50% of sex workers had an STI.

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To be honest I don't think you will ever see a balanced arguement on this or any other punting board, as it opens up a whole can of worms, would need careful constant moderation and to be honest for it to be out in a public forum it would harm the industry's reputation. I can just imagine now all the politicians and journalists having a field day on it.

If you want bareback then that site is the place to go. No other sites allow discussions on it and quite frankly we all have different opinions. My fear would be an adult discussion on here may entice others to practice unsafe sexual activities. If people want to discuss it then there are places they can go to for discussion.

In my opinion all adults should practice safe sex unless in relationships and planning children. The growth of STD's & unwanted pregnancies is high enough without people condoning it. All adults should take responsibility for their own health. Just imagine you know your past but your don't know the person you are sleeping withs past, or the people they have slept with.

Good post and you can only look after your own sexual health, who knows what others might get up to is my view. What i do know is like a few others who have said the same on here in the past i have been offered BB even though the ladies didnt advertise it. They usually said it was because they liked me, so as a realist i believe i wouldnt of been the only punter they had said that to.

As i have absolutely no problems using condoms the view that some have that it feels better without them is one thats of no interest to me. BB for me is within a relationship only as you say.:D

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Something that does confuse me is that I'd expect BB to command a premium price, as it's a niche service with higher risks to the girl.

From looking at **, it appears that there is no premium, and in many cases the girls who offer BB there are priced at the lower end of the market.

Economically, that makes no sense at all. The only explanations I can think of are the low priced girls who offer it are either doing so for their own reasons, not just demand, or they are not in control of their own pricing / service menu.

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Not impossible, just highly improbable.

Agreed, the problem is the supporters and opponents of each position will typically overwhelm any reasonable debate on the middle ground.

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Given the ill formulated and also fairly ignorant argument of the OP no there is no reasonable middle ground for this kind of debate. In some countries where prostitution also represents a legal occupation - condoms are mandatory very much akin to any other safety wear in all manner of professions. If sex enters a professional arena then those providing the services need to consider their well being and that of their patrons. However, it isn't even that simple as in many cases we have a duty of care to those unaware of the fact their partner might use our services. Each person has to appraise for themselves their own sexual behaviour outside of this industry in a private setting.

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One of my partners caught syphilis from a WG. He did not pass it on to me only because I noticed a strange spot on his penis. Had I not noticed this I would have caught it to. The symptoms in women are not noticeable until they are in the late stages. The girl in question was working offering OWO etc but she was having unprotected sex with my partner so I don't know if it was passed on to anyone else. Had he not told her she could have infected so many whilst advertsing as squeaky clean, they in turn could have infected their partners etc.

So in short there is no such thing as safe sex, bareback is Russian Roulette. Go for it if you have not got a partner or if you have a partner that you are not worried about losing or infecting. Like anything in life it is your choice and the wg's choice but make but make sure it is also the choice of the next person you sleep with.

We had a girl work for us that got a review from a man who's previous review had been for a girl he had bareback sex with. She refused to offer OWO from this day and it brought it home to her that we have no idea just what people have been doing and what dangers they are putting others in.

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Safe sex is no sex.

Everything else is personal preference and risk management.

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One of my partners caught syphilis from a WG. He did not pass it on to me only because I noticed a strange spot on his penis. Had I not noticed this I would have caught it to. The symptoms in women are not noticeable until they are in the late stages. The girl in question was working offering OWO etc but she was having unprotected sex with my partner so I don't know if it was passed on to anyone else. Had he not told her she could have infected so many whilst advertsing as squeaky clean, they in turn could have infected their partners etc.

So in short there is no such thing as safe sex, bareback is Russian Roulette. Go for it if you have not got a partner or if you have a partner that you are not worried about losing or infecting. Like anything in life it is your choice and the wg's choice but make but make sure it is also the choice of the next person you sleep with.

We had a girl work for us that got a review from a man who's previous review had been for a girl he had bareback sex with. She refused to offer OWO from this day and it brought it home to her that we have no idea just what people have been doing and what dangers they are putting others in.

Make sure it is also the choice of the next person you sleep with, very good point and i wonder how many barebackers think or care about this, especially if the lady they next want to see is condom only. If the punter keeps his punts to himself there would be no way to know he does BB with others, so again it comes back to protecting your own sexual health, thats all the individual can do along with avoiding those that openly advertise BB.

The other argument i have read is what difference does it make if you punt with a condom with a known BB provider. For me it would mean i wouldnt be interested in RO for definate and overall i know i wouldnt enjoy myself due to being worried about catching something, the actual risk of catching something wouldnt be the point, its the worry however unlikely that i might.

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A safe way is for both of you to go to the clinic and get tested then lock yourself up for 3 months together then get tested again. Then hump away and spunk it up till your heart's content.

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I have only one rule on this - never have bareback unless the girl knows you are also having bareback with a relative of hers. That way she knows whatever she gives you her sister/cousin/aunt/niece/mother will get.

To be honest I still have to test the aunt one but I've got a prospect lined up!

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I don't see condoms as a 'barrier' don't suppose non-WGs do when using them either. As a WG however there are two major reasons for me to use condoms;

1. I really don't think clients would be turned on by the thought I could have fluids from someone previous about my person (some may but I guess most won't!).

2. Ok so what if STI risks are low?Well as a lot of the male posters cry on here we make a lot of money seeing guys. Sometimes you even calculate how much we must be making based on working 24/7, 365 days a year not counting overheads. So even if it is quite low we'd have to be crazy to want to risk that sort of income. One STI and at best you might only need 2 weeks off work (do the maths!), that's if it doesn't 'get out'. At worst it gets 'known' and low and behold guys don't want to come see syphillis Sally - so that's your livelyhood gone (do the maths again for future earnings).

So there you go a guy might offer and extra £50 for BB but that's gambled against potential loss of thousands.

Hmmm, I don't like gambling (just the lottery) and I prefer to stay fairly safe thank you.

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God damm bareback on the other site might as well get a revolver and put 2 bullets in the chamber and play russian roulette only a fool would even consider bareback, its so dangerous and puts so many people in danger

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Good post and you can only look after your own sexual health, who knows what others might get up to is my view. What i do know is like a few others who have said the same on here in the past i have been offered BB even though the ladies didnt advertise it. They usually said it was because they liked me, so as a realist i believe i wouldnt of been the only punter they had said that to.

As i have absolutely no problems using condoms the view that some have that it feels better without them is one thats of no interest to me. BB for me is within a relationship only as you say.;)

Yes definatly Smiths and even then only after a little trip to the clinic, you can never be too careful :D

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Exactly. I know my post came over all "business", but they are strong selfish reasons for a WG not to offer the service.

Non-selfish reasons include not wishing clients to come to harm nor anyone else you may come into contact with.

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