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Labour clamp down on prostitution in Scotland 'would drive trade underground'

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Labour clamp down on prostitution 'would drive trade underground'

BBC report

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There's already a long running thread about this: http://www.punternet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24967

no it isn't, the last post is from the 15th, i.e. a week before the Justice Committee's meeting. This is what happens when threads become too long, important information is burried between nonsense comments.

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"........... that by buying sex you are impacting or supporting organised crime, harm to women and their families."

Above message means hard days ahead for the prostitution industry in UK.

Seems end of Golden Era of A/W , Punternet and ISG. Prostitution will stay but not in public domains. It will go back to underground, will more girls getting forced and deprived , and true independent will find more difficult to advertise themselves and so will fall prey to mafia and undergorund agents. Good business for flights to Bangkok in near future though.

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"........... harm to women and their families."

Oh yes, pity they never mention how many families around the world have been able to survive because of prostitution. One Christian charity thought it in the best interests to teach prostitutes how to use a sewing machine in order that they could give up prostitution - it was so helpful that it equated to them having to sew several hundred T-shirts a day in order to make the same amount they would doing a few hours 'on the game'.

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Oh yes, pity they never mention how many families around the world have been able to survive because of prostitution. One Christian charity thought it in the best interests to teach prostitutes how to use a sewing machine in order that they could give up prostitution - it was so helpful that it equated to them having to sew several hundred T-shirts a day in order to make the same amount they would doing a few hours 'on the game'.

What is surprising is the a lot of law makers feel that the girls are in prostitution only because someone forced them or because they have no other decent jobs. Idiots don't know that atleast in India many girls who have one of the best available and highest paying job (as per indian standards) are Air hostess working with airlines and still double up as prostitutes. These girls have one of the highest salary in India for women and really good job but still don't mind to sell pussy to earn much more easier way. So is the case of many Actresses working in movies and television soaps. No one really forces them or can even force them. They earn a lot already and still want more.

It is time for understanding that many girls look it as a way of life to earn a living. We can argue that it is not a respectable job and so has to be stopped. But so is the job of thousands of women who working in porn industry as models. Is their job very respectable. Will parents approve of their daughter working in a Porn movie and gettin fucked in front of camera. But just a law has not accepted this as a legitimate profession time will come for accepting prostitution too.

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"Lothian and Borders Police Assistant Chief Constable Iain Livingstone said further consultation was necessary and expressed fears that new legislation would only serve to drive prostitution further underground.

Mr Livingstone said: "We do have some concerns that you will increasingly drive, or potentially drive, more prostitution further off-street, so it's harder to identify vulnerable women."

Fantastic to see the police take such a sensible stance on it. :(

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What is surprising is the a lot of law makers feel that the girls are in prostitution only because someone forced them or because they have no other decent jobs. Idiots don't know that atleast in India many girls who have one of the best available and highest paying job (as per indian standards) are Air hostess working with airlines and still double up as prostitutes. These girls have one of the highest salary in India for women and really good job but still don't mind to sell pussy to earn much more easier way. So is the case of many Actresses working in movies and television soaps. No one really forces them or can even force them. They earn a lot already and still want more.

It is time for understanding that many girls look it as a way of life to earn a living. We can argue that it is not a respectable job and so has to be stopped. But so is the job of thousands of women who working in porn industry as models. Is their job very respectable. Will parents approve of their daughter working in a Porn movie and gettin fucked in front of camera. But just a law has not accepted this as a legitimate profession time will come for accepting prostitution too.

If you take away the dark side of the industry ie. pimping, trafficking which I think has made up a small percentage of what prostitution has been, is about - even looking at things historically prostitutes have been the true independent women living in a patriarchal society and looked out for each other (I'd like to think more often than not), you'll find many of those who oppose it really know the true facts but refuse to accept it.

It's governed by the 'good girl' v 'bad girl' laws of nature which 'philosopher' David Hume (1800s) highlights. Elizabeth Wurtzel has an interesting book 'Bitch' which also covers good v bad girls. It's served it's purpose very well I suppose - one set of women who are sexually repressed trying to maintain their status quo by alienating another set who are sexually enlightened and truly in charge of themselves. It's a man's world isn't it ? :D

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margo macdonald
has a lot of good sense between her ears!

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Here is the official report from the meeting :

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/committees/justice/or-10/ju10-1101.htm

This quote from Ann Hamilton got me :

"Obviously, there has been a lot of chat on punternet, which is one of the websites that provide an opportunity for men to review women and talk about their experience in prostitution. You might be interested to hear that they have been encouraging as many individual women as possible to write in and respond to the committee on the matters that are being considered."

Err, right. :o

I think you'll find that those who are self employed within the sex industry have a right to be made aware of any proposed changes in legislation which will directly effect them and further, the right to reply. :)

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Another very interesting extract from the debate:

Robert Brown: Would the criminalisation of paying for sex help or hinder the ability to get stuck into the trafficking problems?

Assistant Chief Constable Livingstone: That is a very good question that goes to the essence of some of the proposed amendments to the bill. We have fears about the potential to prosecute. Ann Hamilton talked about some of the complexities of the trafficking legislation. There are issues to do with getting corroborative evidence of some of the key elements, such as that sex took place, that payment took place and how the payment was made. There are also issues to do with whether the women are unwilling witnesses and whether we would revictimise them by enforcing the proposed legislation. That is our fundamental reservation, although it is a reservation rather than an objection, if that is not too woolly.

We are not sure how the proposed measures would work in practice, or how they would be enforced. Would they cause further harm, and would it be too difficult for us to report the matter to the Crown? Would the Crown be in a position to take the case? If not, would we end up with a piece of legislation on the statute book that was not enforced or utilised, which would undermine our whole approach?

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"

Seems end of Golden Era of A/W , Punternet and ISG. Prostitution will stay but not in public domains. It will go back to underground, will more girls getting forced and deprived , and true independent will find more difficult to advertise themselves and so will fall prey to mafia and undergorund agents. Good business for flights to Bangkok in near future though.

Ann Hamilton = In respect of advertising for paid sex, it is clear that, if people were not able to advertise in the newspaper, they would not stop but would move on to the internet, which is currently used very extensively, but there are means of addressing that. We do so in relation to child pornography and a number of other crimes. Because something might be difficult is not a reason for not doing it. It is an area in which the police would be able to develop more investigative tools, over a period.

I remember having a conversation on Punternet with someone from Dubai, and from Dubai you are not allowed to visit Punternet, or any prostitution related site. So Ann's plan will be a non starter.

There is a vast difference between child pornography with most people rightly against that, and prostitution where the majority of the country believe it should be legalised. Would the ISPs implement blocking of prostitition related sites in the same way they take on the blocking of child pornography sites through the request of the Internet Watch Foundation? Its a totally different kettle of fish, and there are more sites deserving of being blocked than sites advertsising consenting adult activity. Trying to block PN, ** sites would open a whole can of worms and some serious debates in the web world.

Anyway foreign proxy sites would allow access to all of these sites.

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Ann Hamilton is quite correct in saying that the Polis can (often, and eventually) track down internet child pornographers, but that is invariably by way of their credit cards, unless they take the PC in for repair, or take the film to Boots to be developed!

If the thought police start tracking down my BTinternet internet feed, I can sneak into the Public Library, or some seedy internet cafe, or, I can cruise round a nice suburb for a few minutes with my lap top on the seat beside me, until I find an insecure wi-fi, and then access PN, PL or, even, another well known site.

It ain't going to be as easy as the delightful lady apparently thinks - and will she provide Strathclyde Polis wi' a supplementary budget for the work?

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The Police need a warrant to be able to look into your internet/mobile phone habits and that requires quite a bit of evidence plus a court appearance on their behalf.

Although internet is monitored/recorded it takes a lot to dig into and sift through. How many people do you think visit sites of any illegal activity every day?Thousands at least. There are drug discussion sites and all sorts of other things out there.

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This quote from Ann Hamilton got me :

"Obviously, there has been a lot of chat on punternet, which is one of the websites that provide an opportunity for men to review women and talk about their experience in prostitution. You might be interested to hear that they have been encouraging as many individual women as possible to write in and respond to the committee on the matters that are being considered."

She's very silly to make the point though, isn't she? Letters from independent ladies demanding the freedom to work torpedo her mythology that all WGs are broken sex slaves.... and now she's tripped herself into acknowledging that some (most) women are working of their own free will. Bit dumb of her, I'd have said.

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She's very silly to make the point though, isn't she? Letters from independent ladies demanding the freedom to work torpedo her mythology that all WGs are broken sex slaves.... and now she's tripped herself into acknowledging that some (most) women are working of their own free will. Bit dumb of her, I'd have said.

Yes, it was a spectacular own goal. :)

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For completness

Thank you for that. One, much overlooked, statement, that I found bears quoting:

"In actual fact, most trafficked people in the UK end up working in the building

industry, on farms, in the fish processing industry, in catering, and in many

other industries."

Ha!

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Thank you for that. One, much overlooked, statement, that I found bears quoting:

"In actual fact, most trafficked people in the UK end up working in the building

industry, on farms, in the fish processing industry, in catering, and in many

other industries."

Ha!

The Police, DWP, or BIA have been raiding businesses in Scotland for some time. Almost every illegal worker found has been in these industries. I haven't heard of any trafficked workers found in Saunas, flats, etc north of the border.

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Laura, you don't count in their eyes. You are a traitor. I love this quote attributed to Julie Burchill from this paper.

http://www.permanentrevolution.net/files/pr3/15-21%20Prostitution.pdf

Prostitution is the supreme triumph of capitalism. When the sex war is won prostitutes should be shot as collaborators for their terrible betrayal of all women for the moral tarring and feathering they gave indigenous women who have had the bad luck to live in what they make their humping ground.

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Laura, you don't count in their eyes. You are a traitor. I love this quote attributed to Julie Burchill from this paper.

Prostitution is the supreme triumph of capitalism. When the sex war is won prostitutes should be shot as collaborators for their terrible betrayal of all women for the moral tarring and feathering they gave indigenous women who have had the bad luck to live in what they make their humping ground.

http://www.permanentrevolution.net/files/pr3/15-21%20Prostitution.pdf

Droll, isn't it? If you wrote the same thing about gays, Moslems, or Jews you'd be charged for inciting hatred.

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Droll, isn't it? If you wrote the same thing about gays, Moslems, or Jews you'd be charged for inciting hatred.

As all the legislation these days is gender neutral (except for that which is applicable to only one gender), then it would incorporate the gay community.

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