elrond

Guardian CIF Sex work should not be a crime

37 posts in this topic

good article that points out the govt's discrimination towards sex workers

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Very good article, that quotes an interesting statistic - only 12% of women with children in Britain want to be in full-time employment

This certainly rings true with other parents that I know, some of whom go without holidays and/or struggle with running one old car (in a rural area) in order that the mother can stay at home to bring up the kids. Also, from talking to some of the WGs I have got to know, escorting has allowed them to be there for their kids when they get home from school, rather than being stuck in pointless meetings until 7pm.

As a Labour supporter, it pains me to say that this is very much at odds with the approach of the Ultra Feminist Tendency, who are obsessed with getting kids into childcare from a very young age so that their mothers can get back into the workplace :P

It also supports the idea of there being further tax breaks for couples with young children. Under the current situation, two people earning £20k each will bring home less than one person earning £40k.

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Nice to see the Grauniad redressing the balance by playing devils advocate to its default position

It sometimes gets a bum rap here for giving the radfems to much column space.

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I was hoping this was about Cum In face

I'm starting to wish it was. :D

I've had a roasting on there from some people who have even compared me to excrement.

Nevertheless I shall maintain my composure. ( Just :) )

Oooommmm .......

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I'm starting to wish it was. :D

I've had a roasting on there from some people who have even compared me to excrement.

Nevertheless I shall maintain my composure. ( Just :) )

Oooommmm .......

I thought the prats were very much in a minority, though, Laura, and you more than held your own against them. Well worth doing. I'm sorry there weren't more ladies contributing.

Edited by Mr. Bloom
Pressed the submit key too soon

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I thought the prats were very much in a minority, though, Laura, and you more than held your own against them. Well worth doing. I'm sorry there weren't more ladies contributing.

yes indeed laura,the anti-prostitute comments reflect just a minority albeit vociferous bigots who are afraid of womens sexual freedom

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I thought the prats were very much in a minority, though, Laura, and you more than held your own against them. Well worth doing. I'm sorry there weren't more ladies contributing.

Cheers. The secret is not to lose your temper, something I'm working on. :)

Yes, it's a pity more women didn't join in. :)

yes indeed laura,the anti-prostitute comments reflect just a minority albeit vociferous bigots who are afraid of womens sexual freedom

It's quality over quantity when it comes to the antis though, I mean some of the comments were just filled with venom. *sigh*

The trouble is if I bite back with equal nastiness I'll get bounced on -

"Oh look, the hooker is showing her true colours now."

God bless evening primrose oil. :D

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yes indeed laura,the anti-prostitute comments reflect just a minority albeit vociferous bigots who are afraid of womens sexual freedom

It would be unfair to say it was just about the sexual freedom of women - there are many people who are aware of the negative impact prostitution can have on someone's life, and unfortunately only the negative impacts. It's similar to those whose only contact with the drug world is that of dealing with problem drug users, they find it impossible to see past what they have dealt with.

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It infuriates me when I read or hear journalists say that sex workers are forced into selling their bodies for sex. Most women who work in this field do so for thier own reasons and could never be forced into anything they didn't want to do.

yes, there are girls who are vulnerable and easily persuded to do things against their wills, but most are not.

sallyxx (pariba)

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I'm starting to wish it was. :D

I've had a roasting on there from some people who have even compared me to excrement.

Nevertheless I shall maintain my composure. ( Just :) )

Oooommmm .......

Don't take it personally. Your right-on liberal Guardian reader has a fine vocabulary of offensive invective when pushed and anonymous. There is a sociological study waiting to be done here.

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I'm starting to wish it was. :D

I've had a roasting on there from some people who have even compared me to excrement.

Nevertheless I shall maintain my composure. ( Just :) )

Oooommmm .......

Laura,

Be thankful, that it is only the minority, who hold their personal take on morality & prejudices to be the norm for society as a whole & that the vast majority of posts; as is always the case on such Cif threads, are supportive of sex workers, their desire to be entitled to the same rights & considerations as any other worker & opposition to this blatantly misguided legislation.

At least there hasn't been the usual routine of Matt Seaton; the Cif editor, jumping in to delete every post that his favoured lobbyists &, pro-party line, BTL commentors don't approve of (normally because they expose them for the ignorant bigots they really are).

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A well written and argued article.

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It infuriates me when I read or hear journalists say that sex workers are forced into selling their bodies for sex. Most women who work in this field do so for thier own reasons and could never be forced into anything they didn't want to do.

yes, there are girls who are vulnerable and easily persuded to do things against their wills, but most are not.

sallyxx (pariba)

I had the first women openly confess to me that she did not like what she did. (She is a client of mine for websites), but when it came down to it, she said she sells sex because she needs the extra cash, and that the anti's could piss off.

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Gaurdian article from Cari

Sex work should not be a crime

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/07/sex-work-crime-legislation

Great article. There were a couple of points that especialy struck home.

women are coerced into "rehabilitation"

Great point -Just exactly who are the coercers Harman and friends rant about.....Why its also themselves! and who the hell gave the Government the right to dictate to women who are not coerced or pimped what employment they may or may not take.

The pimps trafficers and government interference are the problems.

On a lighter note, I did like this disclaimer from the last comment.

"I do not sell sex. I am an escort. I sell my time and company, and if we happen to be attracted to one another, and feel like having sex together, that's just dandy, but I don't sell sex."

Perfik

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I had the first women openly confess to me that she did not like what she did. (She is a client of mine for websites), but when it came down to it, she said she sells sex because she needs the extra cash, and that the anti's could piss off.

I expect very few people like what they do.

I can't see the govenrment making it illegal for a woman to sit at a filling station window on minimum wage, taking real abuse from customers and having to pay for any thefts of petrol or goods from her measly wages.

That is exploitation but the Garage owner is "just a businessman".

Any responsible Working girl who works for herself voluntarily doing a difficult and dangerous job should be applauded and repected by society.

Those that have hangups about prostitution usually have sexual hangups too. Society should really be thanking us for taking the weight of its baggage on our shoulders.

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Those that have hangups about prostitution usually have sexual hangups too. Society should really be thanking us for taking the weight of its baggage on our shoulders.

Over the last couple of weeks I've been trying to pinpoint what exactly has happened since a wave of females came to power and actually made the plight of women - well women who don't fit their critera suffer.

I happened upon 'Gender Narcissism and its Manifestations' by Gerald Schoenewolf, Ph.D., which made for some interesting reading (not sure how you much you make of Freud and his theories but I did think Ms.Bindel certainly fits the criteria which is mentioned - I noted in one of her recent articles she mentioned having no male friends ? And it does make you think about the Vera Baird's and Harriet Harman's of the political scene. ).

"..... our society, and Western society in general, has become inundated with social problems that are to some extent connected with gender narcissism. Unless we are willing admit and confront a problem, we cannot solve it. The strife caused by militant feminism-with its attack on family values and disruption of conventional heterosexual relations-is the chief social pathology brought about by societal gender narcissism. In our culture, gender narcissism and other forms of cultural narcissism may be epidemic, and their mass rage may constitute our biggest agent of oppression."

http://www.narth.com/docs/1996papers/schoenwolf.html

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Over the last couple of weeks I've been trying to pinpoint what exactly has happened since a wave of females came to power and actually made the plight of women - well women who don't fit their critera suffer.

I happened upon 'Gender Narcissism and its Manifestations' by Gerald Schoenewolf, Ph.D., which made for some interesting reading (not sure how you much you make of Freud and his theories but I did think Ms.Bindel certainly fits the criteria which is mentioned - noted in one of her recent articles she mentioned having no male friends ? And it does make you think about the Vera Baird's and Harriet Harman's of the political scene. ).

"..... our society, and Western society in general, has become inundated with social problems that are to some extent connected with gender narcissism. Unless we are willing admit and confront a problem, we cannot solve it. The strife caused by militant feminism-with its attack on family values and disruption of conventional heterosexual relations-is the chief social pathology brought about by societal gender narcissism. In our culture, gender narcissism and other forms of cultural narcissism may be epidemic, and their mass rage may constitute our biggest agent of oppression."

http://www.narth.com/docs/1996papers/schoenwolf.html

This might explain the strange link Nu-Labour feminists have with Islam. Strangely HH et all haven't had a go at banning some of the less desirable elements of Islam, such as the public covering of women, and the homophobia that is prevalent amongst them.

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Over the last couple of weeks I've been trying to pinpoint what exactly has happened since a wave of females came to power and actually made the plight of women - well women who don't fit their critera suffer.

I happened upon 'Gender Narcissism and its Manifestations' by Gerald Schoenewolf, Ph.D., which made for some interesting reading (not sure how you much you make of Freud and his theories but I did think Ms.Bindel certainly fits the criteria which is mentioned - I noted in one of her recent articles she mentioned having no male friends ? And it does make you think about the Vera Baird's and Harriet Harman's of the political scene. ).

"..... our society, and Western society in general, has become inundated with social problems that are to some extent connected with gender narcissism. Unless we are willing admit and confront a problem, we cannot solve it. The strife caused by militant feminism-with its attack on family values and disruption of conventional heterosexual relations-is the chief social pathology brought about by societal gender narcissism. In our culture, gender narcissism and other forms of cultural narcissism may be epidemic, and their mass rage may constitute our biggest agent of oppression."

http://www.narth.com/docs/1996papers/schoenwolf.html

Isn't it simpler? When previously opressed groups gain a degree of power they typically use it to bully others...... Revolutions are rarely followed by liberal regimes.

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Don't take it personally. Your right-on liberal Guardian reader has a fine vocabulary of offensive invective when pushed and anonymous. There is a sociological study waiting to be done here.

I think it really comes down to a combination of cognitive dissonance and ego. There was a time in my life when I would have thought 'prostitution' to be morally repugnant, simply because I was brought up to think that way, as are most people. But over time, I came to see the world very differently, and my views changed completely. Admitting that you're wrong about something is a very difficult thing for some people to do, particularly when you've invested a lot of energy and time into an idea or belief. To then have people come back at you with rational arguments that deep down you know to be fair, and to find that you have no comeback, there are only two possible responses; admit you were wrong, or lash out violently. Most people pick the latter.

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I think it really comes down to a combination of cognitive dissonance and ego. There was a time in my life when I would have thought 'prostitution' to be morally repugnant, simply because I was brought up to think that way, as are most people. But over time, I came to see the world very differently, and my views changed completely. Admitting that you're wrong about something is a very difficult thing for some people to do, particularly when you've invested a lot of energy and time into an idea or belief. To then have people come back at you with rational arguments that deep down you know to be fair, and to find that you have no comeback, there are only two possible responses; admit you were wrong, or lash out violently. Most people pick the latter.

I agree with you..... but, as the author of the comment you cite, would stress that prostitution brings out far more poison on the Guardian's board (albeit only from a minority of contributors) than even it does on the Telegraph or Times boards. The tabloids are anotrher issue, needless to say.

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Isn't it simpler? When previously opressed groups gain a degree of power they typically use it to bully others...... Revolutions are rarely followed by liberal regimes.

but often a Reign of Terror

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I agree with you..... but, as the author of the comment you cite, would stress that prostitution brings out far more poison on the Guardian's board (albeit only from a minority of contributors) than even it does on the Telegraph or Times boards. The tabloids are anotrher issue, needless to say.

This may be a completely baseless theory, but I'm assuming the most vitriolic responses come from women. I think you would find that the Guardian probably has a larger female readership that the Times or Telegraph, and of those women that read it, there is a much greater chance that they would be of a feminist persuasion, and you could argue that this is the demographic that is most likely to react strongly to the issue.

I always find it ironic, considering feminism is supposed to be about women being free to make their own choices in life, and not being constrained by traditional morals - which is a noble cause, in my opinion - then when some women make choices that they don't like, they throw their toys out of the pram!

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This may be a completely baseless theory, but I'm assuming the most vitriolic responses come from women. I think you would find that the Guardian probably has a larger female readership that the Times or Telegraph, and of those women that read it, there is a much greater chance that they would be of a feminist persuasion, and you could argue that this is the demographic that is most likely to react strongly to the issue.

I always find it ironic, considering feminism is supposed to be about women being free to make their own choices in life, and not being constrained by traditional morals - which is a noble cause, in my opinion - then when some women make choices that they don't like, they throw their toys out of the pram!

I absolutely agree. There's a hierarchy in feminism.

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