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jbx1972

Prostitution vs. Pornography...

14 posts in this topic

Forgive me for being naiive, but what's the difference between a lady receiving payment to star in the porn film where she is having sex with a guy, vs. a lady receiving payment to fuck a stranger from the street...where she is having sex with a guy?

Money is exchanging hands, people are having sex...

The only difference I see is the presence of a video camera.

I'm sure there's a decent/recent explanation for this, so please share.

Thanks,

Jx.

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Forgive me for being naiive, but what's the difference between a lady receiving payment to star in the porn film where she is having sex with a guy, vs. a lady receiving payment to fuck a stranger from the street...where she is having sex with a guy?

Money is exchanging hands, people are having sex...

The only difference I see is the presence of a video camera.

I'm sure there's a decent/recent explanation for this, so please share.

Thanks,

Jx.

Well there is no difference in my book. Obviously since both porn and prostitution are legal in this country there's no legal difference here, but in the US prostitution is illegal but the porn industry thrives perfectly legally - You set up the business, buy a video camera, get your certificates and start hiring girls to fuck you while you film them POV style....quite a few US based sites working just like that, and somehow it evades their laws - not sure how the US's anti-prostitution laws are written so can't explain the loophole esp. since as I've said it's very often the same person doing the filming and paying the money and getting the sex, so there's no 3rd party get out.

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Well there is no difference in my book. Obviously since both porn and prostitution are legal in this country there's no legal difference here, but in the US prostitution is illegal but the porn industry thrives perfectly legally - You set up the business, buy a video camera, get your certificates and start hiring girls to fuck you while you film them POV style....quite a few US based sites working just like that, and somehow it evades their laws - not sure how the US's anti-prostitution laws are written so can't explain the loophole esp. since as I've said it's very often the same person doing the filming and paying the money and getting the sex, so there's no 3rd party get out.

OK - just googled the california prostitution code, since that's where a lot of the porn producers are based and the very first section says this......

653.20. For purposes of this chapter, the following definitions

apply:

(a) "Commit prostitution" means to engage in sexual conduct for

money or other consideration, but does not include sexual conduct

engaged in as a part of any stage performance, play, or other

entertainment open to the public.

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen/653.20-653.28.html

Obviously there's your get out right there - clearly the porn producers had the expensive lawyers at hand to make sure they were exempt.

Still no difference in my book though.

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Obviously there is a difference. A prostitute offers sexual services to all and sundry (subject to personal limits) in exchange for money.

A porn actress does not provide sexual services to anyone. She performs for the purpose of an artistic production. She does not provide sexual services to her fellow actors or actresses, any more than they provide sexual services to them. They are all involved together in the production of a work of art or entertainment showing sexual acts.

Both fine as far as I am concerned if consensual.

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Obviously there is a difference. A prostitute offers sexual services to all and sundry (subject to personal limits) in exchange for money.

A porn actress does not provide sexual services to anyone. She performs for the purpose of an artistic production. She does not provide sexual services to her fellow actors or actresses, any more than they provide sexual services to them. They are all involved together in the production of a work of art or entertainment showing sexual acts.

Both fine as far as I am concerned if consensual.

assuming you're not being ironic.......she provides service to whoever pays her, just like a prostitute. Most porn stars hired by 3rd parties very often don't know who they'll be fucking when they turn up. So long as he's legit and has all the certificates etc. I've never heard of a porn star saying no....nobody would hire them if they were likely to turn their nose up at a sudden change of lineup

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This article is worth reading

The legal line between porn and prostitution

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/12/colb.pornography/index.html

This is the reason why pornography is leagal in California

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Freeman

This should clarify why the situation in other US states:

However prostitution is defined, courts are generally reluctant to restrain pornographers because of the First Amendment complications. A publicity-crazy lawman can always make arrests and even get convictions, but it's foolish to do so without ironclad statutory language. If a conviction is reversed like Hal Freeman's was, the result would be counterproductive at best. As it stands, there's a big sign over California saying "PORN PRODUCTION LEGAL HERE." Only an idiot, a porn lover, or perhaps an Illinois governor would risk erecting another sign saying "HERE TOO."

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So essentiall, if I visit a place with one girl, take a video camera on the premise of making a video, I can't be touched? Or is this, again, being naiive.

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So essentiall, if I visit a place with one girl, take a video camera on the premise of making a video, I can't be touched?.

Yes, if that place is in California and the sexual conduct is part of any stage performance, play, or other entertainment open to the public.

Meanwhile, back in the UK, prostitution isn't illegal and you can't be prosecuted for seeing a girl at your place, her place, a flat, a hotel, a brothel etc etc whether you take along a video camera or not, unless she is subject to "exploitative conduct" ( as defined by section 53A(3) Sexual Offences Act 2003).

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Starman's references are to the US.

The English definition of prostitute involves the provision of sexual services to another for payment (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/ukpga_20030042_en_4#pt1-pb12-l1g51). My earlier comment about "all and sundry" was not strictly relevant.

A porn actress does not provide sexual services, nor do her male or female co-actors. She and they have sex for money, but this is in the course of acting out a role for the purposes of an artistic work, not for the purpose of providing sexual services to one another.

So a porn actress is not a prostitute unless she works as such outside the porn industry.

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Starman's references are to the US.

The English definition of prostitute involves the provision of sexual services to another for payment (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/ukpga_20030042_en_4#pt1-pb12-l1g51). My earlier comment about "all and sundry" was not strictly relevant.

A porn actress does not provide sexual services, nor do her male or female co-actors. She and they have sex for money, but this is in the course of acting out a role for the purposes of an artistic work, not for the purpose of providing sexual services to one another.

So a porn actress is not a prostitute unless she works as such outside the porn industry.

I don't agree with you here.

A porn actress does provide sexual services.The definition of "prostitute " in section 51(2) is very wide.

So far as I can recall there is no definition of "sexual services" in the SOA2003 although there is a definition of "Sexual" which may include penetration and touching.

In Scotland, section 9(3) of the Protection of Children and Prevention of Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2005 defines "sexual services" as:

(a) the performance of sexual activity; or .

(:P the performance of any other activity that a reasonable person would, in all the circumstances, consider to be for the purpose of providing sexual gratification.

I think that's a reasonable interpretation of the meaning which would be persuasive authority in England & Wales.

There's no exception in the Sexual Offences Acts in respect of "acting out a role for the purpose of artistic work etc" as implied by you.

I've no doubt that a porn actress is classed as a prostitute within the wide meaning of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, as is a masseuse who provides HR/HE.

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Nope the main difference is the production company who is filming them or who they are working for. While they are paid to have sex to a degree they are more paid for the film they star in as that what is being sold even tho it revolves around sex.

The key difference is that the people having sex with them is not paying for the sex and the company is which is how they can avoid prostitution laws. I find it an interesting loop hole actually.

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Nope the main difference is the production company who is filming them or who they are working for. While they are paid to have sex to a degree they are more paid for the film they star in as that what is being sold even tho it revolves around sex.

The key difference is that the people having sex with them is not paying for the sex and the company is which is how they can avoid prostitution laws. I find it an interesting loop hole actually.

No loophole. The performers are paid to have sex/provide a sexual service.

The other performer doesn't have to pay them. Look at section 51(2)- “Prostitute” means a person (A) who, on at least one occasion and whether or not compelled to do so, offers or provides sexual services to another person in return for payment or a promise of payment to A or a third person.

There is no loophole here. The statutory definitions of "prostitute" and "sexual" are very wide, and deliberately so,

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An alternative view is that both paying a prostitute for sex and paying a porn actress both treat women as a commodity.

Some in society think that not everything should be capable of being purchased.

Outmoded ideas from a judo-christian past or the rationale of feminism? That is what we in the punting community are up against.

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An alternative view is that both paying a prostitute for sex and paying a porn actress both treat women as a commodity.

Some in society think that not everything should be capable of being purchased.

Outmoded ideas from a judo-christian past or the rationale of feminism? That is what we in the punting community are up against.

are men treated as commodities when the prostitute or porn star happens to be male? or does patriarchial society expect men to be sexually active.

feminism was intended to challenge a patriarchial society rather than re-enforce it,we don't see male prostitutes & porn actors as victims, so why does modern feminism see female prostitutes & porn actresses as victims?

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