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The problem of Street Girls, what is the Answer?

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Following on from the Arabesque thread, does anyone have any ideas as to what can be done to remove the problem of drug addicted, pimped, sick and or coerced street girls?

Arabs employ SG's in their parlour arangement, unfortunately they don't give them a reason not to go back to the street, nor help them with health or addiction issues.

Come on folks, if anyone can find a solution, it should be us who have some ideas!

Perhaps the answer is to legalise brothels, so that they have a safe place to go, where there is support for the issues they face in their personal lives.

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Following on from the Arabesque thread, does anyone have any ideas as to what can be done to remove the problem of drug addicted, pimped, sick and or coerced street girls?

Arabs employ SG's in their parlour arangement, unfortunately they don't give them a reason not to go back to the street, nor help them with health or addiction issues.

Come on folks, if anyone can find a solution, it should be us who have some ideas!

Perhaps the answer is to legalise brothels, so that they have a safe place to go, where there is support for the issues they face in their personal lives.

I don't honestly know the answer hun but here in Liverpool there are outreach workers who go to the SG's and give them clean needles and condoms and can assist them with other stuff like referals to getting help getting off drugs etc.

As sad as it is I think in anything like this YOU have to want to be helped and alot of them don't ;)

As far as shitholes like Arabs go people like that should be charged for leeching off girls who aren't really in control of their lives and are in a bad way :P

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if the police enforced the law re drug dealers there would be no women selling sex to pay for drugs as none would be available.

perhaps parlours stop street girls though as this story from a few years back implies]

Absolutely spot on youveryniceman. I now live in a city that I am unfamiliar with but I will bet all I have that I could find a drug dealer tonight - easy. Don't know why the police don't do their job. Drug dealers and pimps create the street girl problem. Legalisation of brothels needs to happen in tandem with a police crackdown on dealers and pimps.

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perhaps street girls should move to roads or avenues as their is less stigma in being a road girl or an avenue girl!

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I don't honestly know the answer hun but here in Liverpool there are outreach workers who go to the SG's and give them clean needles and condoms and can assist them with other stuff like referals to getting help getting off drugs etc.

As sad as it is I think in anything like this YOU have to want to be helped and alot of them don't :)

As far as shitholes like Arabs go people like that should be charged for leeching off girls who aren't really in control of their lives and are in a bad way :D

Yes you have to want to be helped. Help has to be able to find you as well. The problems with all criminalization is the the women and the clients go to areas where help is not at hand.

It would be great if you could get street girls off the road, and that the premises were well run caring and included outreach workers. It has often though been said that no brothel would employee and no street worker would work in those conditions. At least Arabs prove that not to be totally the case. I think I would for those willing to work indoors, see some cooperative brothel run by ex street workers and out reach workers. I don't see small flats as a solution because of the number required, and the number of outreach workers needed to visit very regularly.

Alternatives for those too disorganized to work in a brothel would be safe zones, monitored, policed and with outreach workers. Scotpep reckon that was good, and gave them access to the women and helped those out of their addiction spiral.

Amanda on her blog mentions some ideas from Germany.

http://www.sensuous-amanda.com/a-solution/

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Legalised brothels would not touch them because of the drugs and currently most won't touch them either.

How do we reach them at the young and impressionable age? They have 'boyfriends' who persuade them that they can earn a couple a hundred a night and 'Charlie' is their best friend.

Where else can they make that can kind of money? Education is all well and good but the social networks they live in frown upon this. Sadly they are screwed by the 4 P's. The Politicians, Police, Pimps and the Punters.

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I believe street girls are only working on the streets to finance their habit, and for no other reason. Therefore the problem lies in the cause.

If much stronger penalties were enforced rigidly on the use of addictive drugs, a lot of the crime in this country would be removed. The majority of crime is drug related.

If the government spent more money on preventing the drugs entering the country, i.e. solving the problem at source, rather than spending the money on solving the effects of crime, drug addiction, and street prostitution, then this should reduce the number of addictive drug users.

I see addictive drug use as the cause of a lot of modern society's problems, and a lot of the money generated from drug manufacture, is being used for terrorism. We are far too tolerant of this scourge of modern society.

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Always will be 'street girls' due to the rationale that puts most of them on the street

Ive always found them a turn on and when I had to work in certain northern cities I used to go out and collect one , invariably they were awesome if the money was there to fuel them

Sad I know but there we go

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The drugs and associated issues with addiction are here to stay, prohibition doesn't work. We've spent a lot of money trying to enforce existing laws but the problem just seems to get worse.

In my opinion, the only real way to get the girls off the streets would be to provide them with what they are working for... drugs. It would actually be cheaper than the cost of policing the resulting crime from not doing so. At least then we could be providing them the drugs they crave in a controlled environment, where they could also receive support to kick the habit and reintegrate into society.

re: others who want to close the dodgy parlours that will employ these kinds of girls... I know there is an element of exploitation from the owners but if they are allowing the girls to work in a safe environment, in light of recent events, isn't that better than them taking their chances on the streets?

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There is a school of thought shared, bizzarely, by ultra right wing and ultra liberal thinkers that all drugs should be legalised. This would remove many of the problems associated with pimping and trafficking as these scumbags would not be able to exploit and profit from their vulnerable victims. It would enable the drug users to access places where some would respond to treatment. It would also significantly reduce the 50% of all UK crime that is committed by drug users needing to finance their addiction. Why would anyone pay a dealer hard earned cash if drugs were available for free.

I'm not saying I support this view but I do think it should be subject to some sort of academic or government review and perhaps a better way of dealing with the drug problem might emerge.

However, whilst we live in a world where 92% of the population of the world's most powerful country believe in God and 39% of them own a gun, it will take many more decades before they come to their senses.

Things are changing slowly. There are people alive today who were born at a time when women didn't have the vote and people in the UK were sent to prison for being homosexual. Then again, Sarah Palin who tried to ban all books by a homosexual author from her library only a few years ago came very close to being the 2nd most powerful person on the planet 18 months ago.

I get really angry by all this hypocrisy. Feeling very anti american and anti religion today. Gonna have to go for a punt in next day or so and have some fun.

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There is a school of thought shared, bizzarely, by ultra right wing and ultra liberal thinkers that all drugs should be legalised.
It is actually possible to be both right wing and liberal, you know. And last time I looked the ultra left wing (Communists, Maoists, etc.) were hideously illiberal. Agree with most of your post, by the way.

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Legalised brothels would not touch them because of the drugs and currently most won't touch them either.

Legalized business brothels would not touch them, but some how a scheme whereby outreach workers with ex street women working in partnership with the street girls could succeed.

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The answer is to legalize all drugs

Free heroin gives good results A test-run of issuing free heroin to addicts in Copenhagen appears to be successful, with initial results showing reduced crime and prostitution and improved health and life quality for those taking part in the project.

Since March this year, some 20 addicts have been part of a programme under which two clinics provide them with heroin each morning and afternoon.

The head of the Valmue Clinic in Copenhagen says that his centre has registered both a physical and psychological improvement among the addicts.

"They don't have to wake up in the morning with how to get money as the first thing they think about. That gives them a surplus that means that we can talk to them about their housing situation, how we can help them apply for a disability pension if they need that, or perhaps about the child they have lost contact with," says Valmue Clinic Head Torben Ballegaard

http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article985984.ece

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Yes you have to want to be helped. Help has to be able to find you as well. The problems with all criminalization is the the women and the clients go to areas where help is not at hand.

It would be great if you could get street girls off the road, and that the premises were well run caring and included outreach workers. It has often though been said that no brothel would employee and no street worker would work in those conditions. At least Arabs prove that not to be totally the case.

http://www.sensuous-amanda.com/a-solution/

Elrond could you explain your views on this a little more concisely please, in particular as you've named Arabs could you tell me in your view is there a difference in and your views on the following two examples.

1) A parlour that is willing to employ Street girls and help them to clean up but wouldn't keep then on the books if its plain that they have no intention or more importantly desire to do so.

2) A parlour that actively recruits street girls and keeps them working for many years while their problems and health get worse and have no issues with the girls working the Streets AND the Parlour for years and years?

Personally for me there is a world of difference but I really would like to know exactly where you stand on this issue.

As I'm sure your aware many of the larger parlours in Manchester are now involved in a fledgling forum and we are looking at inviting other bodies to the meetings for their input (WI, health workers , women's charities, police to name just a few that have been discussed) and this is a point that almost all of them agree on so your exact views on this will be of great interest to us.

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The answer is to legalize all drugs

Free heroin gives good results A test-run of issuing free heroin to addicts in Copenhagen appears to be successful, with initial results showing reduced crime and prostitution and improved health and life quality for those taking part in the project.

Since March this year, some 20 addicts have been part of a programme under which two clinics provide them with heroin each morning and afternoon.

The head of the Valmue Clinic in Copenhagen says that his centre has registered both a physical and psychological improvement among the addicts.

"They don't have to wake up in the morning with how to get money as the first thing they think about. That gives them a surplus that means that we can talk to them about their housing situation, how we can help them apply for a disability pension if they need that, or perhaps about the child they have lost contact with," says Valmue Clinic Head Torben Ballegaard

http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article985984.ece

After 40 years, $1 trillion, US War on Drugs has failed to meet any of its goals

After 40 years, the United States' war on drugs has cost $1 trillion and hundreds of thousands of lives, and for what? Drug use is rampant and violence even more brutal and widespread.

Even U.S. drug czar Gil Kerlikowske concedes the strategy hasn't worked.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/13/ap-impact-years-trillion-war-drugs-failed-meet-goals/

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I suppose that legalising drugs might help, but the danger of that route would surely be that more people would start using, and become addicts.

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if the police enforced the law re drug dealers there would be no women selling sex to pay for drugs as none would be available.

This is the same naive attitude taken by our government. Laws and policing don't prevent drug use. Heard of the US's "war on drugs", epic fail. Prohibition of alcohol (tried by many countries over the years), epic fail.

Perhaps a more liberal approach would be legalisation and regulation of drugs. Cracking down doesn't work, as demonstrated by hundreds of years of history.

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However, whilst we live in a world where 92% of the population of the world's most powerful country believe in God [...] it will take many more decades before they come to their senses.

Although I agree with your overall point about a considered, rational approach being required, FYI, if you're talking about the USA, actually the ARIS report (as summarised by Wikipedia) found that 59% of US citizens in the western states reported a belief in God rising to 86% in the "bible belt" southern states.

And your inference that a belief in God somehow indicates poor judgement about how to deal with drugs is even more far from the mark than your made up statistics. Admittedly official drug policy coming out of some of the political/religious organisations (e.g. the Vatican) is pretty poor IMHO. But many individuals who believe in God have open minded liberal attitudes to life.

Belief in God does not equal closed minded religious bigot. It would be a mistake to confuse a stereotype with reality.

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Although I agree with your overall point about a considered, rational approach being required, FYI, if you're talking about the USA, actually the ARIS report (as summarised by Wikipedia) found that 59% of US citizens in the western states reported a belief in God rising to 86% in the "bible belt" southern states.

And your inference that a belief in God somehow indicates poor judgement about how to deal with drugs is even more far from the mark than your made up statistics. Admittedly official drug policy coming out of some of the political/religious organisations (e.g. the Vatican) is pretty poor IMHO. But many individuals who believe in God have open minded liberal attitudes to life.

Belief in God does not equal closed minded religious bigot. It would be a mistake to confuse a stereotype with reality.

Fair point biggee - I apologise. My statistics are not made up though - they were taken from an article in the Washington Post from 2008 and a Gallup poll in 2000 put the figure at 95%.

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I believe street girls are only working on the streets to finance their habit, and for no other reason.

Right -------- and no "Escorts" take drugs I suppose. :D:rolleyes:

I know at least one lady who loves to push a bit of Charlie up her nose. :)

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Here's a link to an article about the study from a few years back that was used to indicate that even though the USA and the UK were throwing a lot of money and resources at fighting cannabis, usage rates were higher than in countries, like Portugal, Germany and the Czech Republic, with more liberal policies against drug possession so they could free resources to concentrate on drug dealers.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_can_use-lifestyle-cannabis-use

Even in the Netherlands, where adults could just go into a coffee shop and buy cannabis over the counter they were less likely to use cannabis than in the UK and the USA.

Going back to the original question, I think the way forward is probably the sensible harm reduction policies being trialed by some countries linked to by Starman above along with a more liberal attitude to prostitution. If the UK legalised prostitution like they did in Germany, enterprising individuals or local governments can consider converting properties into German style Eros Centres so the RLDs can at least be indoors in a more secure environment. Under the backwards Labour government just ousted this wasn't going to happen, but maybe, fingers crossed, the new coalition in power in the UK will be more open-minded.

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If the UK legalised prostitution like they did in Germany, enterprising individuals or local governments can consider converting properties into German style Eros Centres so the RLDs can at least be indoors in a more secure environment.

Yes, it would be nice ------- but it aint gonna happen in my lifetime, maybe in yours as I don't know your age.

The current government have their work cut out to sort out the mess Labour left behind, the last thing on their agenda would be making prostitution or should I say brothels legal. ;);)

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The answer is to legalize all drugs

Free heroin gives good results A test-run of issuing free heroin to addicts in Copenhagen appears to be successful, with initial results showing reduced crime and prostitution and improved health and life quality for those taking part in the project.

Since March this year, some 20 addicts have been part of a programme under which two clinics provide them with heroin each morning and afternoon.

The head of the Valmue Clinic in Copenhagen says that his centre has registered both a physical and psychological improvement among the addicts.

"They don't have to wake up in the morning with how to get money as the first thing they think about. That gives them a surplus that means that we can talk to them about their housing situation, how we can help them apply for a disability pension if they need that, or perhaps about the child they have lost contact with," says Valmue Clinic Head Torben Ballegaard

http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article985984.ece

I'd agree with that. If addicts could get their fix at a licensed dispensary under supervision of a doctor there would be no need for them to go out and steal or sell themselves on the street. It would also devalue any dealers motives in trying to recruit new addicts as long term there would be no financial advantage for them.

After 40 years, $1 trillion, US War on Drugs has failed to meet any of its goals

After 40 years, the United States' war on drugs has cost $1 trillion and hundreds of thousands of lives, and for what? Drug use is rampant and violence even more brutal and widespread.

Even U.S. drug czar Gil Kerlikowske concedes the strategy hasn't worked.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/13/ap-impact-years-trillion-war-drugs-failed-meet-goals/

says it all really

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After 40 years, $1 trillion, US War on Drugs has failed to meet any of its goals

After 40 years, the United States' war on drugs has cost $1 trillion and hundreds of thousands of lives, and for what? Drug use is rampant and violence even more brutal and widespread.

Even U.S. drug czar Gil Kerlikowske concedes the strategy hasn't worked.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/13/ap-impact-years-trillion-war-drugs-failed-meet-goals/

''The Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs is an international treaty to prohibit production and supply of specific (nominally narcotic) drugs and of drugs with similar effects except under licence for specific purposes, such as medical treatment and research. Its major effects included updating the Paris Convention of 13 July 1931 to include the vast number of synthetic opioids invented in the intervening 30 years and a mechanism for more easily including new ones. From 1931 to 1961 most of the families of synthetic opioids had been developed, including drugs in whatever way related to methadone, pethidine, morphinans and dextromoramide & related drugs.''

I don't think the strategy was really about saving the people from the evils of drugs but to keep Big Pharm rich, which are owned by rich countries - certain bodies have a quota they can obtain but because the demand for heavy duty pain relief medication by rich countries outweighs the supply, the cost remains high (incidently, the demand is now so high in emerging economies that it's been suggested that the buying up of all of the opium crop in Afganistan would help to meet the demand).

Couple that with the fact that drug producing countries supplying outside the 'licence' usually have corrupt governments and drug barons in conflict which uses tax payers money to be seen waging the war on drugs, which in turn keeps the countries poor.

I daresay even if the science proved 100% that an improvement all round in the world if drugs were legalised, you wouldn't find many Western governments backing the plan. ;)

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